Notices tagged with indiewebdev
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Tantek ()'s status on Friday, 01-Nov-2024 17:33:00 EDT 
Tantek
Last week at a #HomebrewWebsiteClub session¹ I pointed out that I was working on implementing a “simple” way to support embeds of my notes, that is, make my short notes embeddable, like how people embed tweets or toots.
I noted that to keep it as simple as possible while being flexible to implementation changes, I planned to implement three things:
1. A separate “embed” version of my post permalinks, with just the entry information (no header, nav, search, sidebar, footer etc.), embeddable via copy/paste or an iframe.
2. A way to “Follow Your Nose” discover that separate embed version
3. A way to discover the original post from the embedded version
For (1) a minimal h-entry, with perhaps a little bit of inline CSS would suffice.
For (2) I proposed using “rel=embed” which I’ve subsequently written up briefly².
For (3) The obvious existing answer is rel=canonical link from the embed version to the canonical post permalink.
Soon thereafter, several folks in the #IndieWeb community went ahead and implemented such embeds for their own sites, and even the https://libre.fm/ open scrobbling service!
https://indieweb.org/embed#IndieWeb_Examples
I have yet to implement it myself, and that’s fine. This is one of the things I appreciate about the community, we can share our plans and ideas for improving things on our own sites, and if someone else does it first, that's great! We celebrate it and explore the solution space together.
Got other ideas for simple embeds? Want to implement them on your own site?
Join us in the #indiewebdev chat: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev
UPDATE: What about oEmbed? tl;dr: oEmbed requires JS and backend code, more work and unsuitable for embeds from static site hosting (like GitHub pages).
A simple HTML method is accessible to many more independent publishers and easier to implement. More: https://tantek.com/2024/306/t2
Glossary
embed
https://indieweb.org/embed
Follow Your Nose
https://indieweb.org/follow_your_nose
h-entry
https://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry
oEmbed
https://indieweb.org/oEmbed
rel-canonical
https://indieweb.org/rel-canonical
static site hosting
https://indieweb.org/static_web_hosting
References
¹ https://indieweb.org/events/2024-10-23-hwc-europe#embedding
² https://indieweb.org/rel-embed
This is post 27 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts
← https://tantek.com/2024/287/t1/fediverse-unfollow-bridgyfed-bug
→ 🔮 -
Tantek ()'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 18:05:00 EST
Tantek
Similar to @paulgraham.com (@paulg@mas.to @paulg)’s 2008 observation about trolls¹, there’s a sort of Gresham's Law of developers (vs users): developers are willing to use a forum with a lot of users in it, but users aren’t willing to use a forum with a lot of developer-speak.
Whether such forums are email lists, chat (IRC, #Matrix, #Slack, #Discord), or, well, online forums (#Reddit, #HackerNews), when discussions either start or shift into technical details, jargon, or acronyms, users (in a very broad sense) tend to stop participating, and sometimes leave, never to return.
Users in this context are anyone with a desire (or a preference) not to chat or even be bothered spending time reading about technical plumbing & #jargon, and see such discussions as a distraction at best, and more like noise to be avoided.
Paraphrasing Paul Graham again: once technical details, jargon, acronyms “take hold, it tends to become the dominant culture” and discourages users from showing up, discussing user-centric topics, or even staying in said forum.
The #IndieWeb community started in 2011 as a single #indiewebcamp IRC channel (no email list²) because it was tightly coupled to IndieWebCamp events, which were both highly technical and yet focused on actually making things work on your personal site that you need³, that you will use⁴ yourself. Conversations bridged real world use-cases and technical details.
It only took us five years after the first IndieWebCamp in Portland to recognize that the community had grown beyond the events, and had a clear need for a separate place for deep discussions of developer topics.
As part of renaming the community from IndieWebCamp to IndieWeb⁵, we created the #indieweb-dev (dev) channel for such technical topics like protocols, formats, tools, coding libraries, APIs, and any other acronyms or jargon.
The community did a good job of keeping technical topics in the dev channel, and encouraging new folks in the main #indieweb channel who started technical conversations to continue them in the dev channel.
Still, it was too easy for user-centric topics to veer into technical territory. It often felt more natural to continue a thread in the channel it started rather than break to another channel. There was also a need for regular community labor to nudge developer conversations to the developer chat channel.
We had already started documenting IndieWeb related jargon⁶ on the wiki and turned it into a MediaWiki Category so we could tag individual pages as jargon and have them automatically show-up in a list. Soon after, @aaronparecki.com (@aaronpk@aaronparecki.com) added a heuristic to the friendly channel bot Loqi to recognize when people started using jargon in the main IndieWeb chat channel and nudge⁷ them to the development channel.
Having Loqi do some of the gentle nudging has helped, though it‘s still quite easy for even the experienced folks in the community to get drawn into a developer conversation on main as it were.
We’ve documented both a summary and lengthier descriptions of channel purposes⁸ which help us remind each other, as well as provide a guide to newcomers.
Both experienced community members and newcomers share much of the user-centric focus of the IndieWeb, the IndieWeb being for everyone⁹, whether developer, hobbyist, or someone who wants an independent presence on the web without bothering with technical details. Whether some of us want to code or not, we all want to use our IndieWeb sites to express ourselves on the web, to use our sites instead of depending on social media silos. That shared purpose keeps us focused.
It takes a village: eternal community vigilance is the price of staying user-centric and welcoming to newcomers.
The ideas behind this post were originally shared in the IndieWeb meta chat channel.¹⁰
This is post 8 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts
← https://tantek.com/2024/033/t1/earthquake-sanfrancisco-shifted
→ 🔮
Post glossary:
development channel (indieweb-dev)
https://indieweb.org/discuss#dev
Discord
https://indieweb.org/Discord
format
https://indieweb.org/format
Hacker News (HN)
https://indieweb.org/Hacker_News
IndieWeb
https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb
IndieWebCamp
https://indieweb.org/IndieWebCamp
IRC
https://indieweb.org/IRC
jargon
https://indieweb.org/jargon
Loqi
https://indieweb.org/Loqi
main IndieWeb chat channel (on main)
https://indieweb.org/discuss#indieweb
Matrix
https://indieweb.org/Matrix
meta chat channel
https://indieweb.org/discuss#meta
MediaWiki Category
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Categories
plumbing
https://indieweb.org/plumbing
protocol
https://indieweb.org/protocol
Reddit
https://indieweb.org/Reddit
tools
https://indieweb.org/tools
Slack
https://indieweb.org/Slack
social media silos
https://indieweb.org/silos
¹ https://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html (2008 essay, HN still succumbed to trolling)
² https://indieweb.org/discuss#Email
³ https://indieweb.org/make_what_you_need
⁴ https://indieweb.org/use_what_you_make
⁵ https://indieweb.org/rename_to_IndieWeb
⁶ https://indieweb.org/jargon
⁷ https://indieweb.org/Category:jargon#Loqi_Nudge
⁸ https://indieweb.org/discuss#Chat_Channels_Purposes
⁹ https://tantek.com/2024/026/t3/indieweb-for-everyone-internet-of-people
¹⁰ https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2024-01-22#t1705883690759800 -
Tantek ()'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 18:05:00 EST
Tantek
Similar to @paulgraham.com (@paulg@mas.to @paulg)’s observation about trolls¹, there’s a sort of Gresham's Law of developers (vs users): developers are willing to use a forum with a lot of users in it, but users aren’t willing to use a forum with a lot of developer-speak.
Whether such forums are email lists, chat (IRC, #Matrix, #Slack, #Discord), or, well, online forums (#Reddit, #HackerNews), when discussions either start or shift into technical details, jargon, or acronyms, users (in a very broad sense) tend to stop participating, and sometimes leave, never to return.
Users in this context are anyone with a desire (or a preference) not to chat or even be bothered spending time reading about technical plumbing & #jargon, and see such discussions as a distraction at best, and more like noise to be avoided.
Paraphrasing Paul Graham again: once technical details, jargon, acronyms “take hold, it tends to become the dominant culture” and discourages users from showing up, discussing user-centric topics, or even staying in said forum.
The #IndieWeb community started in 2011 as a single IRC channel #indiewebcamp (no email list²) because it was tightly coupled to IndieWebCamp events, which were both highly technical and yet focused on actually making things work on your personal site that you need³, that you will use⁴ yourself. Conversations bridged real world use-cases and technical details.
It only took us five years after the first IndieWebCamp in Portland to recognize that the community had grown beyond the events, and had a clear need for a separate place for deep discussions of developer topics.
As part of renaming the community from IndieWebCamp to IndieWeb⁵, we created the #indieweb-dev (dev) channel for such technical topics like protocols, formats, tools, coding libraries, APIs, and any other acronyms or jargon.
The community did a good job of keeping technical topics in the dev channel, and encouraging new folks in the main #indieweb channel who started technical conversations to continue them in the dev channel.
Still, it was too easy for user-centric topics to veer into technical territory. It often felt more natural to continue such threads in the channel it started rather than break to another channel. It was also a constant bit of community labor to nudge developer conversations to the developer chat channel.
We had already started documenting IndieWeb related jargon⁶ on the wiki and turned it into a MediaWiki Category so we could tag individual pages as jargon and have them automatically show-up in a list. Soon after, @aaronparecki.com (@aaronpk@aaronparecki.com) added a heuristic to the friendly channel bot Loqi to recognize when people started using jargon in the main IndieWeb chat channel and nudge⁷ them to the development channel.
Having Loqi do some of the gentle nudging has helped, though it‘s still quite easy for even the experienced folks in the community to get drawn into a developer conversation on main as it were.
We’ve documented both a summary and lengthier descriptions of channel purposes⁸ which help us remind each other, as well as provide a guide to newcomers.
Both experienced community members and newcomers share much of the user-centric focus of the IndieWeb, the IndieWeb being for everyone⁹, whether developer, hobbyist, or someone who wants an independent presence on the web without bothering with technical details. Whether some of us want to code or not, we all want to use our IndieWeb sites to express ourselves on the web, to use our sites instead of depending on social media silos. That shared purpose keeps us focused.
It takes a community to keep a community healthy and welcoming to newcomers. Eternal community vigilance is the price of being user-centric and welcoming to newcomers.
The ideas behind this post were originally shared in the IndieWeb meta chat channel.¹⁰
This is post 8 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts
← https://tantek.com/2024/033/t1/earthquake-sanfrancisco-shifted
→ 🔮
Post glossary:
development channel (indieweb-dev)
https://indieweb.org/discuss#dev
format
https://indieweb.org/format
IndieWeb
https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb
IndieWebCamp
https://indieweb.org/IndieWebCamp
jargon
https://indieweb.org/jargon
Loqi
https://indieweb.org/Loqi
main IndieWeb chat channel (on main)
https://indieweb.org/discuss#indieweb
meta chat channel
https://indieweb.org/discuss#meta
MediaWiki Category
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Categories
plumbing
https://indieweb.org/plumbing
protocol
https://indieweb.org/protocol
tools
https://indieweb.org/tools
social media silos
https://indieweb.org/silos
¹ https://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html
² https://indieweb.org/discuss#Email
³ https://indieweb.org/make_what_you_need
⁴ https://indieweb.org/use_what_you_make
⁵ https://indieweb.org/rename_to_IndieWeb
⁶ https://indieweb.org/jargon
⁷ https://indieweb.org/Category:jargon#Loqi_Nudge
⁸ https://indieweb.org/discuss#Chat_Channels_Purposes
⁹ https://tantek.com/2024/026/t3/indieweb-for-everyone-internet-of-people
¹⁰ https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2024-01-22#t1705883690759800 -
Tantek ()'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2018 13:36:00 EST
Tantek
“To PESOS or to POSSE?”https://dri.es/to-pesos-or-to-posse
Great post@Dries! #openweb#indieweb
Go for it. POSSEing to Twitter^1 and Facebook^2 works quite well.
Whether notes^3 / status updates (since 2010), or photos^4 (since 2015), it’s totally doable, and brings incredible peace of mind and a greater sense of ownership & control over your content.
You may also want to look into POSSEing replies^5, owning your comments as it were.
This comment for example, was originally posted ontantek.comas a single post, a multi-reply^6, automatically POSSEd to Twitter where it was auto-ellipsed & threaded^7 with your tweet, and only manually cross-posted on your original post.
Lots more on the IndieWeb wiki, and plenty of friendly folks ready and willing to share cross-platform/language development experience implementing all this stuff in the #indieweb-dev channel:
*https://chat.indieweb.org/dev
Drop by and say hi anytime!
Tantek
1^https://indieweb.org/Twitter#POSSE_to_Twitter
2^https://indieweb.org/POSSE_to_Facebook
3^https://indieweb.org/note
4^https://indieweb.org/photo
5^https://indieweb.org/reply
6^https://indieweb.org/multiple-reply
7^https://indieweb.org/Twitter#original_has_POSSE_tweet
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