Notices tagged with matrix
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Tantek ()'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 18:05:00 EST Tantek Similar to @paulgraham.com (@paulg@mas.to @paulg)’s 2008 observation about trolls¹, there’s a sort of Gresham's Law of developers (vs users): developers are willing to use a forum with a lot of users in it, but users aren’t willing to use a forum with a lot of developer-speak.
Whether such forums are email lists, chat (IRC, #Matrix, #Slack, #Discord), or, well, online forums (#Reddit, #HackerNews), when discussions either start or shift into technical details, jargon, or acronyms, users (in a very broad sense) tend to stop participating, and sometimes leave, never to return.
Users in this context are anyone with a desire (or a preference) not to chat or even be bothered spending time reading about technical plumbing & #jargon, and see such discussions as a distraction at best, and more like noise to be avoided.
Paraphrasing Paul Graham again: once technical details, jargon, acronyms “take hold, it tends to become the dominant culture” and discourages users from showing up, discussing user-centric topics, or even staying in said forum.
The #IndieWeb community started in 2011 as a single #indiewebcamp IRC channel (no email list²) because it was tightly coupled to IndieWebCamp events, which were both highly technical and yet focused on actually making things work on your personal site that you need³, that you will use⁴ yourself. Conversations bridged real world use-cases and technical details.
It only took us five years after the first IndieWebCamp in Portland to recognize that the community had grown beyond the events, and had a clear need for a separate place for deep discussions of developer topics.
As part of renaming the community from IndieWebCamp to IndieWeb⁵, we created the #indieweb-dev (dev) channel for such technical topics like protocols, formats, tools, coding libraries, APIs, and any other acronyms or jargon.
The community did a good job of keeping technical topics in the dev channel, and encouraging new folks in the main #indieweb channel who started technical conversations to continue them in the dev channel.
Still, it was too easy for user-centric topics to veer into technical territory. It often felt more natural to continue a thread in the channel it started rather than break to another channel. There was also a need for regular community labor to nudge developer conversations to the developer chat channel.
We had already started documenting IndieWeb related jargon⁶ on the wiki and turned it into a MediaWiki Category so we could tag individual pages as jargon and have them automatically show-up in a list. Soon after, @aaronparecki.com (@aaronpk@aaronparecki.com) added a heuristic to the friendly channel bot Loqi to recognize when people started using jargon in the main IndieWeb chat channel and nudge⁷ them to the development channel.
Having Loqi do some of the gentle nudging has helped, though it‘s still quite easy for even the experienced folks in the community to get drawn into a developer conversation on main as it were.
We’ve documented both a summary and lengthier descriptions of channel purposes⁸ which help us remind each other, as well as provide a guide to newcomers.
Both experienced community members and newcomers share much of the user-centric focus of the IndieWeb, the IndieWeb being for everyone⁹, whether developer, hobbyist, or someone who wants an independent presence on the web without bothering with technical details. Whether some of us want to code or not, we all want to use our IndieWeb sites to express ourselves on the web, to use our sites instead of depending on social media silos. That shared purpose keeps us focused.
It takes a village: eternal community vigilance is the price of staying user-centric and welcoming to newcomers.
The ideas behind this post were originally shared in the IndieWeb meta chat channel.¹⁰
This is post 8 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts
← https://tantek.com/2024/033/t1/earthquake-sanfrancisco-shifted
→ 🔮
Post glossary:
development channel (indieweb-dev)
https://indieweb.org/discuss#dev
Discord
https://indieweb.org/Discord
format
https://indieweb.org/format
Hacker News (HN)
https://indieweb.org/Hacker_News
IndieWeb
https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb
IndieWebCamp
https://indieweb.org/IndieWebCamp
IRC
https://indieweb.org/IRC
jargon
https://indieweb.org/jargon
Loqi
https://indieweb.org/Loqi
main IndieWeb chat channel (on main)
https://indieweb.org/discuss#indieweb
Matrix
https://indieweb.org/Matrix
meta chat channel
https://indieweb.org/discuss#meta
MediaWiki Category
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Categories
plumbing
https://indieweb.org/plumbing
protocol
https://indieweb.org/protocol
Reddit
https://indieweb.org/Reddit
tools
https://indieweb.org/tools
Slack
https://indieweb.org/Slack
social media silos
https://indieweb.org/silos
¹ https://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html (2008 essay, HN still succumbed to trolling)
² https://indieweb.org/discuss#Email
³ https://indieweb.org/make_what_you_need
⁴ https://indieweb.org/use_what_you_make
⁵ https://indieweb.org/rename_to_IndieWeb
⁶ https://indieweb.org/jargon
⁷ https://indieweb.org/Category:jargon#Loqi_Nudge
⁸ https://indieweb.org/discuss#Chat_Channels_Purposes
⁹ https://tantek.com/2024/026/t3/indieweb-for-everyone-internet-of-people
¹⁰ https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2024-01-22#t1705883690759800 -
Tantek ()'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 18:05:00 EST Tantek Similar to @paulgraham.com (@paulg@mas.to @paulg)’s observation about trolls¹, there’s a sort of Gresham's Law of developers (vs users): developers are willing to use a forum with a lot of users in it, but users aren’t willing to use a forum with a lot of developer-speak.
Whether such forums are email lists, chat (IRC, #Matrix, #Slack, #Discord), or, well, online forums (#Reddit, #HackerNews), when discussions either start or shift into technical details, jargon, or acronyms, users (in a very broad sense) tend to stop participating, and sometimes leave, never to return.
Users in this context are anyone with a desire (or a preference) not to chat or even be bothered spending time reading about technical plumbing & #jargon, and see such discussions as a distraction at best, and more like noise to be avoided.
Paraphrasing Paul Graham again: once technical details, jargon, acronyms “take hold, it tends to become the dominant culture” and discourages users from showing up, discussing user-centric topics, or even staying in said forum.
The #IndieWeb community started in 2011 as a single IRC channel #indiewebcamp (no email list²) because it was tightly coupled to IndieWebCamp events, which were both highly technical and yet focused on actually making things work on your personal site that you need³, that you will use⁴ yourself. Conversations bridged real world use-cases and technical details.
It only took us five years after the first IndieWebCamp in Portland to recognize that the community had grown beyond the events, and had a clear need for a separate place for deep discussions of developer topics.
As part of renaming the community from IndieWebCamp to IndieWeb⁵, we created the #indieweb-dev (dev) channel for such technical topics like protocols, formats, tools, coding libraries, APIs, and any other acronyms or jargon.
The community did a good job of keeping technical topics in the dev channel, and encouraging new folks in the main #indieweb channel who started technical conversations to continue them in the dev channel.
Still, it was too easy for user-centric topics to veer into technical territory. It often felt more natural to continue such threads in the channel it started rather than break to another channel. It was also a constant bit of community labor to nudge developer conversations to the developer chat channel.
We had already started documenting IndieWeb related jargon⁶ on the wiki and turned it into a MediaWiki Category so we could tag individual pages as jargon and have them automatically show-up in a list. Soon after, @aaronparecki.com (@aaronpk@aaronparecki.com) added a heuristic to the friendly channel bot Loqi to recognize when people started using jargon in the main IndieWeb chat channel and nudge⁷ them to the development channel.
Having Loqi do some of the gentle nudging has helped, though it‘s still quite easy for even the experienced folks in the community to get drawn into a developer conversation on main as it were.
We’ve documented both a summary and lengthier descriptions of channel purposes⁸ which help us remind each other, as well as provide a guide to newcomers.
Both experienced community members and newcomers share much of the user-centric focus of the IndieWeb, the IndieWeb being for everyone⁹, whether developer, hobbyist, or someone who wants an independent presence on the web without bothering with technical details. Whether some of us want to code or not, we all want to use our IndieWeb sites to express ourselves on the web, to use our sites instead of depending on social media silos. That shared purpose keeps us focused.
It takes a community to keep a community healthy and welcoming to newcomers. Eternal community vigilance is the price of being user-centric and welcoming to newcomers.
The ideas behind this post were originally shared in the IndieWeb meta chat channel.¹⁰
This is post 8 of #100PostsOfIndieWeb. #100Posts
← https://tantek.com/2024/033/t1/earthquake-sanfrancisco-shifted
→ 🔮
Post glossary:
development channel (indieweb-dev)
https://indieweb.org/discuss#dev
format
https://indieweb.org/format
IndieWeb
https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb
IndieWebCamp
https://indieweb.org/IndieWebCamp
jargon
https://indieweb.org/jargon
Loqi
https://indieweb.org/Loqi
main IndieWeb chat channel (on main)
https://indieweb.org/discuss#indieweb
meta chat channel
https://indieweb.org/discuss#meta
MediaWiki Category
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Categories
plumbing
https://indieweb.org/plumbing
protocol
https://indieweb.org/protocol
tools
https://indieweb.org/tools
social media silos
https://indieweb.org/silos
¹ https://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html
² https://indieweb.org/discuss#Email
³ https://indieweb.org/make_what_you_need
⁴ https://indieweb.org/use_what_you_make
⁵ https://indieweb.org/rename_to_IndieWeb
⁶ https://indieweb.org/jargon
⁷ https://indieweb.org/Category:jargon#Loqi_Nudge
⁸ https://indieweb.org/discuss#Chat_Channels_Purposes
⁹ https://tantek.com/2024/026/t3/indieweb-for-everyone-internet-of-people
¹⁰ https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2024-01-22#t1705883690759800 -
Tantek ()'s status on Sunday, 29-Oct-2023 11:18:00 EDT Tantek coding at #IndieWebCamp Nuremberg, completed the following projects:
0.0: fixed the https://chat.indieweb.org/ footer to drop #Matrix as an access option since their bridge is disabled (#IndieWeb IRC, Discord, and Slack still work great), and provide an explicit link/encouragement for filing issues
0.5: investigated IndieWeb wiki issues (mobile presentation), possible fixes, and documented them: https://indieweb.org/MediaWiki_customizations#Issues
0.7: add HTML <search> element support to my home page and permalinks as nerdsniped by @adactio.com (@adactio@mastodon.social @adactio); expanded to <search role=search> to also support folks using older browsers / screenreaders that only support #ARIA 1.1.
0.8: replaced my incorrect use of HTML attribute aria-hidden="true" (on my links to #BridgyFed) as pointed out by @jkphl.is (@jkphl@mastodon.social @jkphl) and https://sonja-weckenmann.de (@sweckenmann@mas.to), with hidden="from-humans". Since other values are allowed on the hidden attribute and treated as hidden="hidden", the "from-humans" value communicates a subtle semantic that the element is intended for consumption by robots & crawlers, like #Bridgy.
0.8.1 Update: created a pull-request (https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/pull/701) to update the BridgyFed documentation markup examples to use the 'hidden' attribute accordingly as well.
Time is up for today’s IndieWebCamp Create Day so my remaining projects will have to wait. -
LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} (lnxw48a1)'s status on Saturday, 30-Jan-2021 16:34:32 EST LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} @geniusmusing Yeah. :-(
I think the #blockwars folks may have indirectly caused this. There are people who file complaints against client apps that don’t build in blocklists against specific servers whose moderation policies they dislike.
I think that #Matrix / #Element competes with one or more Google-owned chat-type services. Since they gatekeep the overwhelming majority of Android users’ software installation, a good antitrust lawyer would be helpful. I’ll bet that faxing a bunch of documents to #USDOJ and various states would suddenly cause Google to decide that Element doesn’t violate their policies anyway.
(Someone said it was “Boomers at Google that don’t understand federation”, but first of all, I’m certain that most GOOG employees are far younger than you and I, and secondly, I’m sure someone at Google understands federation, though they obviously dislike not being in control. Google Talk was federated with #XMPP, while Google Plus was basically #Diaspora with federation stripped out.) -
Zed Ex Fuuma (fuuko)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jul-2018 21:39:58 EDT Zed Ex Fuuma Good evening #sdf, #phloggers and #fediverse! Once again I would like to point out that I created a tilde, which will be a constant WIP from here on out. It's an intentional community like tilde.town. It runs on a freedombox. I want to promote free software, open hardware and more within it. Right now I have Mumble, IRC and Matrix servers running!
https://tildespark.ddns.net/ikiwiki/tildespark/
All are welcome!
#mumble #tilde #irc #matrix #xmpp #community #freedombox #linux
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Zed Ex Fuuma (fuuko)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Jul-2018 19:19:00 EDT Zed Ex Fuuma Good evening #sdf and others! I wanted to show everyone that, with relative ease, one could make their own community using a #raspberrypi 3 and the #freedombox.
So far I have #Matrix, #Mumble and #IRC working on it. For some reason #xmpp wouldn't work, even after re-installation. In any case, I consider this #tilde to be one for free software activists, people who want an inclusive community and so forth.
Here's the address: https://tildespark.ddns.net/ikiwiki/tildespark/
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Zed Ex Fuuma (fuuko)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Apr-2018 21:16:14 EDT Zed Ex Fuuma I'm still working on replacing all my proprietary online services with open source/self-hosted solutions. It's harder than I thought, but I'm still halfway there. I've realized that I don't necessarily need my own cloud, but more of a single file hosting solution. #Freedombox takes care of most of my needs. The only problem is that the Freedombox image for raspberry pi 3, last time I tried it, crashed on me when I installed the server for a #Matrix instance. To be fair, I was using the unstable.
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Zed Ex Fuuma (fuuko)'s status on Wednesday, 06-Dec-2017 12:22:47 EST Zed Ex Fuuma Good afternoon #SDF and the wider #fediverse! Still trying #Matrix and #Riot.im! One question I have though, is does anyone still use any instant messaging stuff like #Jabber anymore? I know #AIM will be dead soon, and #ICQ/#MSN/#Y!M have all either died too or were bought out by someone else. I know SDF had a Jabber server but is anyone even on that?
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Zed Ex Fuuma (fuuko)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Dec-2017 14:36:00 EST Zed Ex Fuuma Good afternoon #SDF and the wider #fediverse! Last night I tried #Riot.im for #ios(Using the #Matrix protocol) and I found that there's lots of tech chatrooms. I checked out the #OpenBSD chat and they seem to be pretty knowledgeable about it. The fact that there's an IRC bridge is also cool. Might try Weechat and it and see how well it works.
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majestyx (majestyx)'s status on Sunday, 12-Jul-2015 16:39:05 EDT majestyx ich war nie freiwillig beim fratzenbuch, mach mich doch nicht selbst zur scheisshausfliege! aber dann, kaum den kopf aus der idologischen scheisse gezogen da meckerst via !gnusocial - "die fliegen bleiben ja alle auf der scheisse sitzen" - ja, … -
inscius (inscius)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2013 10:30:57 EDT inscius @erkanyilmaz I feel like I am scripted now... #Matrix -
lnxwalt (lnxwalt)'s status on Monday, 17-Jun-2013 19:09:30 EDT lnxwalt @question @neo, @oracle, @trinity, and the rest of the #Matrix bots may have contracted robot rust dis…